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Author Topic: Swage-Formed Hollowpoints  (Read 1701 times)

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Offline Miguel Loco

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Re: Swage-Formed Hollowpoints
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2018, 11:25:14 AM »
Quote
Interesting. I'd have thought a 12 oz bottle would have been shredded.


One I do know; popping water jugs with soft lead hollowpoints is good fun.


Sure sounds like it! But then for me anything with explosions, fire, smoke and big bangs is pretty darn fun.....

Looks like you;ve got a winner there!
-Mick
"a dios rogando y con el mazo dando"

Offline Omnivore

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Re: Swage-Formed Hollowpoints
« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2018, 09:52:54 PM »
SOoo..  After trying those partially swaged HP round balls, which are bit problematic in loading, being as there's no heel to align the bullet in the chamber, I decided I needed to try a fully swaged bullet.

I formulated a design, found some chunks of stainless steel rod and started whittling on the little 6" bench lathe we've had in our music instrument shop since the 1980s.

I'm not showing you the whole design until I've done some patent searching, but you can see the ball-nose punch and the cup hollowpointing pin which fits inside it.  The idea of this ball nose is that it will be a decent, approximate fit to he Pietta Colt and Remington, and Uberti Remington repro gun's factory loading rammer.  It is cut with a 29/64ths inch ball end mill, which matches the radius of a typical 44 round ball.  Loading then in a Pietta Colt and Uberti Remington carbine, with factory rammers in them, I see some predictable nose deformation but the HP cavity looks pristine.

Long story short, there is the new, LHSHBBNSWCCHP (Lead, Heeled Semi Hollow Based Ball Nose Semi WadCutter Cup HollowPoint) bullet.

You drop a commercial swaged round ball into the die assembly and pull the lever, and out comes a Taylor-made hollowpoint hollow-base bullet with a long heel and a hollowpoint that's just like the one I semi-swaged using the sizing press.

Also, checking the Hornady web site, you'll find that they make round balls in a spectacular array of sizes, meaning that you can get very close to any weight you want.  And their swaged round balls are very consistent in weight.

From the same die set I've made bullets of around 140, 180 and 200 grains.  The only difference being the length of the drive band.

The photos show three of the shorter bullet, made from Hornady .457 RB, which weighs in at around 143 grains.  To make a 180 grain bullet, toss in a .490" or .495" ball and adjust the position of the nose punch accordingly.  I tried .454" cast ball, and of course they work just as well but what's the point of casting ball and then re-forming them?

The ideas here is to allow the person who lives in an apartment or otherwise cannot set up a casting operation, to be able to make his own custom bullets nonetheless.  Well that, plus I like to whittle steel.

At first the bullets would stick in the die pretty hard, but I found a dry lube that really helps with that, so you get decent ejection.  These HP bullets should open up just like the crude ones shown above, but will load very easily. Although I haven't chronographed them yet, I believe they may even post a higher muzzle velocity due to a better seal.  I still have to fire some to find out.
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.   James 1:25 (KJV)

So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.   James 2:12. (KJV)

Offline Omnivore

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Re: Swage-Formed Hollowpoints
« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2018, 09:55:50 PM »
And more photos;
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.   James 1:25 (KJV)

So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.   James 2:12. (KJV)

Offline Omnivore

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Re: Swage-Formed Hollowpoints
« Reply #18 on: August 18, 2018, 09:57:11 PM »
Aaand, some more;
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.   James 1:25 (KJV)

So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.   James 2:12. (KJV)

Offline Omnivore

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Re: Swage-Formed Hollowpoints
« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2018, 10:05:15 PM »
This is just the proof-of-concept.  I'm waiting for drafting, and then estimates on production costs.  There's no way I'm gonna make another one by these methods on these tools, but I would like to offer the dies to those who can't or don't want to set up for lead casting.  I think that for the price of a custom mold, one could probably get the dise set.  Assuming he already has a loading press, that's less, and certainly no more, than a casting setup.  Bullets would be a bit more expensive than home-cast, having to purchase round ball, but we don't tend to shoot thousands and thousands of rounds per year from our percussion guns like we might do from modern guns.

Oh, and just so as we're all clear on the concept; you can cast a hollowpoint bullet, or you can cast a hollow based bullet, but you cannot cast a hollow-base, hollowpoint  bullet.  In that sense this gives you some capability not found in bullet molds.  No lube groves though.
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.   James 1:25 (KJV)

So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.   James 2:12. (KJV)

Offline Miguel Loco

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Re: Swage-Formed Hollowpoints
« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2018, 07:39:31 AM »
Damn..... that is awesome! Have you fired any of these swaged beauties yet?
-Mick
"a dios rogando y con el mazo dando"

Offline Omnivore

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Re: Swage-Formed Hollowpoints
« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2018, 04:35:14 PM »
Fired a few today.  Just the ones made from .457" round ball, which run about 142 grains.  I expected them to open up better from the 8" Remington, but of course they opened up spectacularly when fired from the 18" revolving carbine.

It wasn't a totally fair comparison because I never fired the 8" into a gallon jug (only a single two liter or two of the two liters arranged one behind the other.

Also I didn't test the 180 grain HPs.  It's harvest season here, the combines are going like mad, and I didn't want to make the farmers nervous seeing my shooting right on the edge of their field.

I thought it was neat how the semi hollow bases of the bullets fired from the carbine had deepened several times over.  It's like the perimeter of the bullet slows down while the center keeps going.  You can still see the semi wadcutter shoulder all the way around the edge of the completely flattened bullet, and the rifling grooves make for a nice decoration.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2018, 04:40:28 PM by Omnivore »
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.   James 1:25 (KJV)

So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.   James 2:12. (KJV)

Offline Miguel Loco

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Re: Swage-Formed Hollowpoints
« Reply #22 on: August 19, 2018, 07:07:48 PM »
The carbine fired ones sure flattened well. They look to be performing as you'd like.  Interesting performance on all of them.
-Mick
"a dios rogando y con el mazo dando"

Offline Omnivore

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Re: Swage-Formed Hollowpoints
« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2018, 08:41:11 PM »
Yeah, from the carbine you get just what I had in mind; a very good varmint round.  A larger volume of T7 powder would amp up the velocity from the 8" NMA and probably get it to expand more.  I still have yet to try this bullet in the 180 grain weight.  I even made a few in 200 grain, by reforming some of the Lee 450-200-1R cast conicals, just for kicks.

I have some molds for casting nicely performing hollowpoints already, but the idea of punching out these little 140-ish grain HP from round ball appealed to me for some reason.

They certainly took care of the water bottles.
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.   James 1:25 (KJV)

So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.   James 2:12. (KJV)

Offline Miguel Loco

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Re: Swage-Formed Hollowpoints
« Reply #24 on: August 19, 2018, 09:52:23 PM »
It appeals to me too.....  it's a very unique idea. It opens some interesting possibilities.
-Mick
"a dios rogando y con el mazo dando"

Offline Omnivore

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Re: Swage-Formed Hollowpoints
« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2018, 11:20:30 PM »
Oh; here are some of the 180 grain bullets from the same die set, formed from .490" round ball.  I have high hopes for these, but only another test shoot will tell.  Still just proof-of-concept.

Then again, deer season is coming up.  Any bets on whether the same chunk of lead, formed into a 44 caliber hollowpoint bullet and fired from the Remington carbine will do more damage than the round ball fired from a 24" fifty caliber rifle using more than twice the powder?  Right now I wouldn't bet either way.  I believe the main discernible difference will be the effective range.
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.   James 1:25 (KJV)

So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.   James 2:12. (KJV)