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Author Topic: The problem with shooting conical bullets  (Read 3075 times)

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Offline rodwha

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Re: The problem with shooting conical bullets
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2017, 10:15:07 AM »
My Pietta Remington NMA and my ROA, which uses a .45 Colt Blackhawk barrel are 1:16.
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Offline WECSOG

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Re: The problem with shooting conical bullets
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2018, 09:40:43 PM »
Modern .45's are usually either 1:10 or 1:16 with the norm being 1:10.
I'm curious as to where you have found any .45 with a 1:10" twist. 1:16" is the norm; even Glock .45s are 1:15.75".

Offline rodwha

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Re: The problem with shooting conical bullets
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2018, 09:48:42 PM »
Can’t say I’ve seen 1:10” with modern stuff and some of these repros having 1:16 and others, meant for a ball, being slower with something like a 1:30”.
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Offline Racing

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Re: The problem with shooting conical bullets
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2018, 02:26:28 PM »
As we´re into it,i believe i´ve never seen the twist of the original referenced?
Yeeeeees...i know they use a progressive twist,but that could be referenced as well couldn´t it?

As for shooting the originals i can attest to that they honestly don´t seem to care all that much what you throw at ´em.

Funny bit with that is that the "precision" guys around here (ya know..that might as well be throwing darts) insist on that heavy charges will somehow magically destroy the gun.
Why that is,i have NO idea what so ever but basically anything beyond 22 grains is frowned upon. Yeah well,whatever... I shoot mine as i see ´em and call ´em...nuff said.

Better late then never i guess but i´ve even finally picked up a keg of T7 for the snubbie. Basically based on NE´s findings,and of course i´ll chrono that one as well when we get there.
Main point of mine there is how well that thing will shoot with Kaidos...that remains to be seen!

What´s more i´ve figured out i need to swap to IR sensor for my chrono... getting up close and dirty at that thing with a boomstick,as in vs a modern gun,weeeeell..it simply isn´t all to fond of the spit n smoke i guess. Erratic readings here i come.. ->i

Anyways.
Modern guns.
Yeah. The more contemporary CZ´s and what not i´ve owned,most of them have been around the 12-16 twist mark.

Speaking of which.
That Chassepot in 45 cal i´m trying to build into a long hauler,it sports a 1:22...and let me put it this way,that´s what i´ve got to work with.
Guess it could always out of pure chance be changed into like..1:14 or 1:16,but that would render... hen n egg? Ie; there´s been quite a few successful designs on the slow twist scene..and of course these are normally designed to WORK with slower twist.
In fact,1:22 isn´t all that slow a twist for a original BP longarm....
Postell seems to be what most use though so apart from the "mediocre" LEE 459-405HB i guess i need to pick one of Lymans fabled Postell ones up as well.
As always,proof is in the pudding..
DVC - 2018

Offline Cross Plains Drifter

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Re: The problem with shooting conical bullets
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2018, 12:31:46 AM »
i've become smitten with 20 gr. T7 under a dry lubed vegetable fiber card under a .452 LRN .45 acp bullet for a self defense load in my steel framed Uberti 1858 4.75".

accuracy is phenominal at longer distances......and that bullet is a proven manstopper.

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Liberty is a well armed Lamb !

Offline rodwha

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Re: The problem with shooting conical bullets
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2018, 11:43:51 AM »
Most likely a 230 grn bullet, right?

Any idea how fast that’s clipping along? Curious how it compares to a standard .45 ACP.

4.75”? Cut it yourself? I’d love to see a pic if you don’t mind.

I developed a couple of bullets for hunting with my cal n ball guns. A WFN design would be more destructive than a RN. And it allows for more mass with less length giving more powder capacity. My 195 bullet is virtually the length of a ball at .460” so as not to take up precious powder capacity. This type of design would certainly make a nice HD round as well. Something to think about as you are defending your bacon with it...
"Were I to leave where else would I go? Your words of life and of truth You hold." - Third Day

Offline Omnivore

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Re: The problem with shooting conical bullets
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2018, 04:56:18 PM »
CPD; are you "heeling" that bullet for loading in a percussion cylinder, or are you using metal cartridges in a conversion cylinder?  My experiences in trying load a non-heeled, non-tapered, flat-based bullet in a percussion cylinder resulted in something like a wrestling match.  I made it work, but it was ugly.  Once I fugured out that you can swage a heel into any 45 caliber bullet, or you can order custom molds any which way you like, a whole new world opened up in front of me.

Also for the record; the Uberti 44s have a faster twist than the 30" twist Piettas.  Any of the Ubertis that I've seen, and I have a few, came with a twist closer to 16 or 18" roughly speaking, and the Uberti Remingtons, and probably the '60 Colt Armies, are already set up in the loading window area to accept conicals whereas my Pietta Remington, and Pietta '60 Army, and Uberti Walker, and Uberto 3rd mod Dragoon, all had to be worked over with a dremel to make room in the loading window.

Bottom line is; conicals can work very well.  I now use them all the time, but depending on the gun you may need to do some work on it first.  The twist rate is probably the least of your concerns.
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.   James 1:25 (KJV)

So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.   James 2:12. (KJV)

Offline Cross Plains Drifter

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Re: The problem with shooting conical bullets
« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2018, 05:21:28 PM »
rod and omni.... yes, 230 grain Lawrence brand Bevel Base .452" LRN.....has to be seated off gun w/a 1/2 ton arbor press.

Democracy is 2 Wolves and a Lamb voting on what's for dinner.....
Liberty is a well armed Lamb !

Offline Dellbert

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Re: The problem with shooting conical bullets
« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2018, 09:50:53 PM »
love that Remmie. I don't have as much trouble with the bullets out of my ROA as I do with the Remmie 58 Army. Then again the only trouble I ever had was them shooting high out of the 58 Army. Seem normal to me. I was already use to them shooting high out of the Colts just had to aim low with them worked out ok.
If it's not broke don't try fixin it.

Offline Omnivore

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Re: The problem with shooting conical bullets
« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2018, 05:15:28 PM »
CPD; that is a nice-looking revolver.  If you have a Lyman style lube-sizer, you can size that bullet down to .450" for your Uberti chambers (that's what mine measure anyway - you'd need to measure yours), then swap out the sizing die for an under-sized one (I think I'm using a .430" or .432" die for "heeling" but the bullet doesn't enter the smallest portion of the die - only the taper at the top), install the gas check seating insert to limit depth, and punch the bullet down to form a taper in the 45 ACP bullet base.  It's pretty easy once you get it set up the first time.  That should allow the same bullet load easy enough on the gun, even with that shortened loading lever.
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.   James 1:25 (KJV)

So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.   James 2:12. (KJV)

Offline Cross Plains Drifter

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Re: The problem with shooting conical bullets
« Reply #25 on: August 01, 2018, 11:09:34 PM »
I don't mind loading off gun (actually prefer it) and my last trip out I realized a few things .

I mis stated the bullets completely......they're 182 gr. (average of 10) LRNFP that are soft enough I can divot them w/my thumbnail, but careful press loading doesn't mar them.

I know it's all due to relative gas P.S.I. behind the bullet increasing with a conical type, BUT this part really made me say WOW.

all shots were fired @ 25 yds. using lubed vegetable fiber cards between bullet & powder & 777 powder, touched off w/#10 Rem. caps.....5.5" bbl.

20 gr under a 182 gr conical gives the EXACT same POI as 30 gr under a 140 gr round-ball.
30 gr under a 182 gr conical gives a 4" higher impact, which @ 50 yds. hits EXACT POA !! (meaning 5" steel plate every shot)

i'm sticking with these .452 LRNFPs for the duration in this revolver !
Democracy is 2 Wolves and a Lamb voting on what's for dinner.....
Liberty is a well armed Lamb !

Offline Claudius_

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Re: The problem with shooting conical bullets
« Reply #26 on: October 06, 2018, 02:48:26 PM »
I was believing that my Uberti Rem 1858 was not able to shoot conical bullets accurately, and the my first sessions were not satisfactory at all (using the Lee mould 450-200). But yesterday I was amazed to see how good were my conical bullets on the target using 20grs of swiss powder and a cardboard wad. I was using the semolina, this is the only difference with the last shooting sessions.
Maybe a good thing for us talking about conicals, that we need to show our targets. My target was realized shooting at 15m and 25m, the odd thing is that the central holes were realized at 25m, but I was more accurate when I have understood where the conical were pointing at.