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the_law_man01:
October 01, 2016, 02:00:26 PM

I'm considering the following Lee mold in addition to a .457 round ball mold to get started casting bullets and balls.

http://leeprecision.com/mold-dc-452-160-rf.html

Also considering an Accurate Molds 190 gr mold.
http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-190S-D.png

I'll be shooting them from my 1858 steel frame target pistol and my ROA.

I would like to find one bullet design that works well in both. I know the ROA shots 195gr bullets from DD very well. The 1858 shots them well enough. I'm wondering if it would shoot a shorter bullet better.

I also load for my 45LC Vaquero so intend to cart for it as well. It is possible that I could car bullets for it AND the ROA and keep a smaller mold specifically for the Remmy.

Any thoughts on it?


Omnivore:
October 01, 2016, 04:23:30 PM

Well you haven't told us what you'd be doing with said molds.  One is designed for metal cartridges and the other is designed for percussion revolvers.  Since this is a percussion revolver forum I'll assume that you'd be using both bullets in a percussion revolver.

Which percussion revolver?  For any percussion revolver you want a tapered heel, or stepped heel, bullet, such as you can see on that Accurate Molds 190.  The Lee bullet you indicated is not suitable for loading in a percussion revolver because it has no taper or stepped heel.  The Lee 450-200-1R is designed specifically for percussion revolvers and is a good bullet.  It's probably the most widely used conical for that application, due to its low price and thoughtful design.  Some of us wanted a more compact bullet (meaning a shorter one) so as to allow more room for powder, and to that end we've come up with billets like the Accurate 45-170C and 45-200S and others.  It just depends on what you want and how far you want to peruse the matter.

Many of the Italian repros are unsuited for loading conical bullets unless the loading port is opened up to accommodate them.  The Uberti Remingtons are an exception, as they should be ready to go for just about any conical (or "elongated bullet").

Further; you will quickly find that some of the bullet nose shapes are altogether incompatible with the shape of gun's loading plunger nose, and will therefore become deformed to some degree upon seating.  The Lee 450-200-1R is pretty good in that respect in most cases, because the plungers in Italian repros are often (but not always) made for round ball.  There are exceptions, and so again, we need to know what gun we're discussing here.  The Accurate Molds 190 you point to should be a good match for the loading plunger nose in most repros.  Uberti Colt Walker and ' 60 Army plungers are shaped for a more pointy bullet, whereas I believe all Piettas are shaped for round ball.  Some of us have made new plungers, in addition to modifying the gun's loading port, to make a gun that works well with wide flat point bullets.  It all depends on what you want.


the_law_man01:
October 01, 2016, 05:17:15 PM

Quote from: Omnivore on October 01, 2016, 04:23:30 PM
Well you haven't told us what you'd be doing with said molds.  One is designed for metal cartridges and the other is designed for percussion revolvers.  Since this is a percussion revolver forum I'll assume that you'd be using both bullets in a percussion revolver.

Which percussion revolver?  For any percussion revolver you want a tapered heel, or stepped heel, bullet, such as you can see on that Accurate Molds 190.  The Lee bullet you indicated is not suitable for loading in a percussion revolver because it has no taper or stepped heel.  The Lee 450-200-1R is designed specifically for percussion revolvers and is a good bullet.  It's probably the most widely used conical for that application, due to its low price and thoughtful design.  Some of us wanted a more compact bullet (meaning a shorter one) so as to allow more room for powder, and to that end we've come up with billets like the Accurate 45-170C and 45-200S and others.  It just depends on what you want and how far you want to peruse the matter.

For some reason, the plunger on my Remmy doesn't fit balls well. It leaves grooves on the out facing portion of the round ball. I'm wondering if that 200gr Lee would work for it?



Many of the Italian repros are unsuited for loading conical bullets unless the loading port is opened up to accommodate them.  The Uberti Remingtons are an exception, as they should be ready to go for just about any conical (or "elongated bullet").

Further; you will quickly find that some of the bullet nose shapes are altogether incompatible with the shape of gun's loading plunger nose, and will therefore become deformed to some degree upon seating.  The Lee 450-200-1R is pretty good in that respect in most cases, because the plungers in Italian repros are often (but not always) made for round ball.  There are exceptions, and so again, we need to know what gun we're discussing here.  The Accurate Molds 190 you point to should be a good match for the loading plunger nose in most repros.  Uberti Colt Walker and ' 60 Army plungers are shaped for a more pointy bullet, whereas I believe all Piettas are shaped for round ball.  Some of us have made new plungers, in addition to modifying the gun's loading port, to make a gun that works well with wide flat point bullets.  It all depends on what you want.

Actually, I did mention exactly what they would be used in.

I've used the 195r bullets from DD4lifeUSMC in my Remmy, ROA, and metallic cases. They seem to shoot well in all 3. Seems like the only major differences between a BP 'conical' and a metallic cartridge 'bullet' are the material used and the presence/absence of lube and/or crimp grooves.


Omnivore:
October 01, 2016, 10:46:54 PM

You did say which guns.  Sorry, sort of-- we still don't know which Remmy you have.  I'll guess that it's a Pietta, but both Uberti and Pietta make "Target" models with adjustable rear sights.  One Remmy is not the same as another, which is why I made an issue of it.  It is an issue, and if you want specific help we need specific information, see?  You might also have the thousand dollar "Shooter's Model" which would be considered a target gun since that's what it's made for, or you could be referring to any Remmy that you happen to use for target shooting.  The Shooter's model has larger chambers and that will in part determine which bullet you select.  I'm mot just picking on you.

Uberti chambers are slightly larger than Pietta standard models, the ROA chambers are larger than the Uberti, and if I'm not mistaken, the "Shooter's" model Pietta has bigger chambers closer to the ROA.

The Uberti loading port will accommodate most any conical, but the Piettas will have to be modified.

Anyway, a heeled bullet for percussion revolvers will work fine in a metal cartridge but a non heeled bullet for a metal cartridge will be a super pain in the neck to load in a percussion revolver.

Crimp grooves and lube grooves are another matter entirely.  Lube grooves are used in percussion revolvers, black powder metallic cartridges and modern smokeless loads with lead bullets.  They're a good idea, not only for holding lube but for reducing contact surface.  The presence of a crimp groove is not an issue one way or the other when it comes to using the bullet in a persuasion revolver.  If it's there, then it serves as another lube groove.

The main issues in selecting a bullet for your percussion revolvers is that it be large enough for the ROA, and that no matter what bullet it is, it has a heel that will slip easily into the chambers prior to seating. Lee has two 44 cal percussion bullets (a "conical" is a "bullet" is a "conical", is an "elongated bullet" which distinguishes it from a round ball, and a round ball is a spherical "bullet").  One of the two Lee bullets (they only offer two) is for the Italian repro 44s and the other is slightly larger for the ROA's slightly larger chambers.  You can use the larger bullet in the smaller Italian guns but they'll shear more of a lead ring and be slightly more difficult to seat.  Having a bullet sizing press allows you to size some of the bullets from the same mold for easy seating in the smaller Italian chambers and use them as dropped from the mold for the ROA.

The other possible issue is whether your guns' loading ports will accommodate a particular bullet, or how much you'll have to modify the gun to make it accommodate the bullet you're trying to use.

So you see that without knowing for certain what Remmy you have, I have answered for several possibilities rather than focus on your specific gun.


Omnivore:
October 01, 2016, 11:13:06 PM

Also, if you're loading for metal cartridges already, then you probably have a lube-sizer?  If so, then you can use any 45 caliber pure lead bullet in the appropriate weight (about 160 to about 250 grains) in your percussion revolvers by "heeling" the bullet in your sizer using an under-sized die, as described in detail here;
http://1858remington.com/discuss/index.php?topic=10093.0

Again; no heel = good for metal cartridges, pain in the neck for percussion revolvers.
Heeled bullet = probably good for both percussion revolvers and metal cartridges, depending on your need for a crimping groove in using metal cases (many loads in 45 ACP for example do not use a crimp groove.

Advanced addendum to above; if you're ordering from a custom mold maker like Accurate, then it is entirely possible to include a crimp groove in a bullet that's heeled for percussion revolvers.

Once we know which specific make and model Remmy you're using we can discuss how to deal with any chamber diameter difference between it and your ROA, how to deal with the loading port in the frame, and the nose shape of the loading plunger.


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