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Author Topic: Ben waiting for this  (Read 9431 times)

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Offline Hawg

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Re: Ben waiting for this
« Reply #30 on: March 20, 2016, 07:32:41 PM »
Should be pretty simple to ream a 45-70 too any of the above I'd think?

The 45-70 is a .45 2 1/10, the 45-120 is a .45 3 1/4 so a lot of bullet jump.
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Offline Captainkirk

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Re: Ben waiting for this
« Reply #31 on: March 20, 2016, 09:11:27 PM »
 
Go find yourself a Sharps it'll make you smile.

Why, I done just that very thing, Mike.
Ain't picked it up yet but I'm smilin' just the same.... :)
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Offline mike116

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Re: Ben waiting for this
« Reply #32 on: March 20, 2016, 09:39:23 PM »
 
Go find yourself a Sharps it'll make you smile.

Why, I done just that very thing, Mike.
Ain't picked it up yet but I'm smilin' just the same.... :)
Your smile will change to a grin as son as you pick it up from Mazo.    I hope you get time soon to make the run to WI.   I will be looking forward to comparing notes with you after we both run a hundred or so rounds run through them.    I started loading some cartridges tonight.

Offline KapundBall

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Re: Ben waiting for this
« Reply #33 on: March 22, 2016, 04:49:45 PM »
Very nice rifle!  Mine's a Remington rolling block replica. It likes 500 gr paper patched slicks over a duplex load of 11 grs FFFg and 65 grs 1.5 F Old Eynsford.
I recently mentioned to a friend that I was getting more interested in Black Powder. He said, "What, like Malcolm X and the Black Panthers?"

Offline M9Powell

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Re: Ben waiting for this
« Reply #34 on: March 22, 2016, 05:33:01 PM »
Should be pretty simple to ream a 45-70 too any of the above I'd think?

You're right.  I've seen some that claimed to be reworked to 45-120 that the gunsmith says will fire 45-70 all the way up through 45-120.   Don't know how well that would work though.

Should be fine, it headspaces on the rim. Shooting 45-70 in a 45-120 might not have gilt edged accuracy I'd think because you'd be starting the bullet a good way away from the rifling. Kinda like shooting 38 special in a .357 I'd think. I could be wrong, no experience with a Sharps or a 45-120, have had a few 45-70s though.

Offline mike116

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Re: Ben waiting for this
« Reply #35 on: March 22, 2016, 05:48:08 PM »
Very nice rifle!  Mine's a Remington rolling block replica. It likes 500 gr paper patched slicks over a duplex load of 11 grs FFFg and 65 grs 1.5 F Old Eynsford.

Hey,  nice to hear from you Kapundball.   Very nice rolling block there.   I haven't ventured into paper patching yet.  Maybe now I'll have a reason to start.

Offline mike116

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Re: Ben waiting for this
« Reply #36 on: March 22, 2016, 05:52:58 PM »
Should be fine, it headspaces on the rim. Shooting 45-70 in a 45-120 might not have gilt edged accuracy I'd think because you'd be starting the bullet a good way away from the rifling. Kinda like shooting 38 special in a .357 I'd think. I could be wrong, no experience with a Sharps or a 45-120, have had a few 45-70s though.

I know it's being done by a few guys but like you said,  I think accuracy would suffer at least a little with more than an inch of bullet jump.

Offline KapundBall

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Re: Ben waiting for this
« Reply #37 on: March 23, 2016, 11:25:28 AM »
Should be pretty simple to ream a 45-70 too any of the above I'd think?

You're right.  I've seen some that claimed to be reworked to 45-120 that the gunsmith says will fire 45-70 all the way up through 45-120.   Don't know how well that would work though.

Should be fine, it headspaces on the rim. Shooting 45-70 in a 45-120 might not have gilt edged accuracy I'd think because you'd be starting the bullet a good way away from the rifling. Kinda like shooting 38 special in a .357 I'd think. I could be wrong, no experience with a Sharps or a 45-120, have had a few 45-70s though.

This is my opinion, not gospel:  :)

Seating the bullet more than, at most, 1/8" off the lands in a BPCR has a negative impact on accuracy and will likely promote leading. We should be shooting pure lead or, nothing harder than BHN 10, over BP in these rifles. While this is good for obturation and creating an excellent gas seal for both consistent velocity and to diminish the likelihood of gas cutting, it means a bullet very susceptible to deformation between exiting case mouth and entering rifling. There is a very good reason that breech seating was de rigeur in black powder Sheutzen.

Firing a 45-70 cartridge in a 45-120 chamber will cause a @ .460" bullet to travel nearly an 1" from case mouth to rifling through a @.480 chamber. Or, it may cause a .460" bullet to obturate out towards the .480" chamber walls, only to be "resized" at the leade to about .459". That can't be good and, certainly with paper patched bullets, would be disastrous. In my opinion, there are several negatives to be associated with this. First, the potential for misalignment and leading at the leade are substantial. Secondly, there will be substantial gas and residue blow-by. If we wipe and dry barrels after every shot in long range BPCR shooting to enhance accuracy, then this tells me that spewing a good deal of residue and unburnt powder down the barrel ahead of the bullet, even if it doesn't result in inconsistent velocities, which it will, would have a negative impact on accuracy. Then there is the possibility of gas cutting.

A 45-120 is indeed a mighty beast. A 535 gr bullet at @ 1400 fps is a 1000 yard cartridge. There may have been a time when there was even a need for such a cartridge. But 500 grs at 1300 (from the 45-70) doesn't seem to be insufficient for any but the most extreme BPCR competitor or vaguely ethical hunter. So, in my opinion, the downsides to a 45-120, other than grin factor, outweigh the upsides.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2016, 12:50:25 PM by KapundBall »
I recently mentioned to a friend that I was getting more interested in Black Powder. He said, "What, like Malcolm X and the Black Panthers?"

Offline Hawg

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Re: Ben waiting for this
« Reply #38 on: March 23, 2016, 11:50:45 AM »
We should be shooting pure lead or, nothing harder than BHN 10, over BP in these rifles.

My paper cutter will lead like a B***H with pure lead. It won't lead at all with a BHN of 12 or so.
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.

Offline mike116

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Re: Ben waiting for this
« Reply #39 on: March 23, 2016, 12:43:53 PM »
Only pure lead cast bullets go in my rifles.   I passed on the rifle that was 45-70 reamed to 120.   I don't have enough faith in the ability of someone I don't know to perform modifications like that and then declare that it works perfectly.  I have viewed several for sale on GunBroker that have been reworked and claims made that they shoot all cartridge lengths.   I don't want to try it though. 
I do think a 45-120 might be fun to play with for a while.

Offline Hawg

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Re: Ben waiting for this
« Reply #40 on: March 23, 2016, 12:50:43 PM »
Only pure lead cast bullets go in my rifles. 

I'm that way with all the rest but this one can't handle it. It doesn't lead at all with harder tho. (^h
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.

Offline mike116

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Re: Ben waiting for this
« Reply #41 on: March 23, 2016, 01:32:09 PM »
Hope this Sharps repro isn't that way.   I like using the same lead for everything.

Offline Len

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Re: Ben waiting for this
« Reply #42 on: March 23, 2016, 01:44:12 PM »
Looking good  (T^

Thanks. The table could use some polish. It really doesn't look that bad but the pics bring it out.  {_K

I didn't notice the table, just drooled over the rifle

Offline Hawg

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Re: Ben waiting for this
« Reply #43 on: March 23, 2016, 02:21:55 PM »
Hope this Sharps repro isn't that way.   I like using the same lead for everything.

It's not that big a deal for me. I just use the same lead I do for smokeless but then I use pure for my .45 ACP so I was already out of whack on it. I couldn't believe what my bore looked like after just 20 rounds of pure tho. It took some doing to get it out even with a Chore Boy. ^y%
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.

Offline DD4lifeusmc

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Re: Ben waiting for this
« Reply #44 on: March 25, 2016, 11:45:15 AM »
Finally  had time to dig out the sharps and the rounds and powder.

The bullets are from the Pedersoli mould  with pure lead they drop at 524 grains
they are 1.166 inches long.
This can be part of the powder volume variance.
Pedersoli manual on mine said 80gr fffg      mine is 54. cal.
Mine the very max level load in chamber behind the bullet that is just dropped in is   95 gr.
So for somebody using a smaller 475 gr bullet, you might get a bit more powder.
Plus there could be a variance between years of manufacture and brands.
I think mine is 2012 or 2013 will have to look later

Anyway it will take at least 2 posts for the pictures.
1st picture the bullets and a tied tail paper cartridge. the block cuts it off quite nicely.
      someday I might make a flat end, but I like the brass ones anyway.
2nd    part of the block action, tin of 4 wing musket caps, 2 bullets and my 35 yr old revolver flask
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